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END of LIFE and YOUR MONEY

Can a Nursing Home ‘Take Our IRA?'

My wife and I are elderly. I have an individual retirement account (IRA) worth about $100,000, and we have a trust set up through our children to protect our assets. If one or both of us have to go into a nursing home, can they take our IRA? What do we need to do to protect it?

-Dawn

Long-term care (LTC), which may include nursing home stays, is expensive and can quickly suck up savings you may have intended for something else.

How do you prevent that from happening? The specific answer depends on variables you didn't reveal. But in my experience, when people talk about "protecting" assets from LTC costs, they often have Medicaid in mind.
So what does that look like?

Qualifying for Long-Term Care Through Medicaid

Medicaid is often viewed as a "safer" option for long-term care for the simple reason that it is less expensive and therefore less likely to drain your assets. But Medicaid eligibility is governed by strict income and asset limits. While those limits vary by state, having a $100,000 IRA will likely disqualify you from Medicaid coverage.


So now you are faced with a paradox: The assets you want to save by means of cheap healthcare are an obstacle to getting cheap care in the first place.

It is at this point that an estate attorney or well-meaning friend might suggest you rearrange your assets in such a way as to exempt them from the eligibility limits.
The idea is to make yourself less wealthy on paper to qualify for Medicaid without actually giving away your assets.

If this sounds tricky, that's because it often is.
For one thing, many states use a five-year lookback period when determining Medicaid eligibility.
This means that if you do any fancy asset-shuffling in the five years before applying, your efforts will have been in vain.

 

3 Ways to Protect Your Assets from Medicaid

If you're willing to plan ahead and do your homework, there are a few options for relocating your assets so that you can potentially qualify for Medicaid.

  1. AnnuitiesAny money you put into a "Medicaid-compliant" annuity will not count against your asset limit and will be exempt from the lookback period, as well. The catch – and it's a big one – is that the money is totally locked up, except for whatever periodic payment you receive from the annuity. And that payment will count against the income eligibility limit.

  2. Home equity: In most cases, any equity you have in your primary residence will not count against the Medicaid asset limit. So you could protect your assets by putting them toward your mortgage or even upgrading your home. But the lookback period also applies here, and in some states, the government may claim part of your home equity to recoup care costs after your death.

  3. TrustsYou mentioned having a trust already set up, but there is a type of trust designed specifically for this situation. Putting your money into a Medicaid asset protection trust (MAPT) effectively hands it over to someone else, so it is technically no longer yours and does not count against your Medicaid eligibility.
    Just remember that the handoff must be completed five years before you go on Medicaid.

As you may notice, the common problem with these methods is that they drastically restrict what you can do with your assets.
And by taking away your financial independence, to some extent they leave you poor in reality – not just on paper.

That may be preferable to the alternatives, but it depends on another variable:
Why do you want to protect your assets from long-term care expenses, including nursing home costs, in the first place?

Is Cheap Care Worth it?

The options discussed above often make the most sense as estate planning measures.
 If you do not expect to use your assets yourself and are instead concerned about preserving them for your heirs, perhaps it does not matter if they get locked up in a trust, an annuity or your home equity.

But there is still an elephant in the room. Remember that these asset-protection techniques will ultimately leave you with cheap healthcare and long-term care. And that may impact your access to care and its overall quality.

Ask yourself this: What are you trying to "protect" your money for? Is it worth all the hoop-jumping and the risk of mediocre care in your twilight years? It may be if you want to leave a sizable inheritance behind or save assets for your spouse.

Next Steps

A middle-ground solution be the best course of action. Something like LTC insurance or an "aging-in-place" strategy may not completely protect your assets from long-term care costs.
But such an option could reduce those costs while still providing the care that preserves your quality of life.

 

Tips for Finding a Financial Advisor

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Graham Miller, CFP® is a SmartAsset financial planning columnist and answers reader questions on personal finance topics. Got a question you'd like answered? Email AskAnAdvisor@smartasset.com and your question may be answered in a future column.

Please note that Graham is not a participant in the SmartAdvisor Match platform. Find more money insights from Graham at the Wiegand Financial blog.

 

SOURCE

COMMENTS

My aunt got in bad shape when she got older. She was obese and in a wheelchair and had diabetes among other things. She had money when she retired from the US Railroad and health insurance plus medicare. She also received life insurance when her husband died. Her kids put her in a state nursing home and the nursing home went thru the legal system and got everything she had. Every bank account, her retirement, her social security. They even foreclosed on her house and sold it. They were giving her $50 a month in the nursing home to spend on toothpaste etc. She couldn't even buy christmas gifts for relatives. That's what they do and it's nothing but organized crime. But it's legal.

I recently read that they can take a Roth IRA but can only take the RMD's(Required Minimum Distribution)   out of a traditional IRA wondering if that is accurate.

After recently looking at and choosing a nursing home for my father I can say under no circumstances would I want anyone I cared about in most of them. I doubt any that would accept Medicare are anything but horrid. I finally found a decent one but it was costly. And worth it. Over 13k a month. B...

Yup - my Dad's was about $12K month. Fortunately, he had a 3K discount bc it was a veterans oriented place, then we had long ago set up a long-term care policy so my parents paid probably $50K over the years in premiums but they then cover $7k per month up to 5 years. leaving him with a balance of ...

I think nowadays LTC (Long Term Care)  insurance is extremely costly and few insurance companies offer it any longer. As in you father's situation, insurance companies were on the hook for a lot of money they did not adequately calculate so many companies withdrew from the market. The remaining ones have high prem...

Yup, my Dad had a stroke at 52 so we expected coverage to be expensive. We only were able to get it bc at the time, I was an IBM employee and their program was very generous. SO, yes they grabbed it and kept paying on it long after I left. (They looked around before and determined it was too expens...

Long term insurance companies intentionally manage to see that after a fairly long time your premiums will get so high it is impossible to keep paying on them so you wind up dropping it. Then they make out like fat rats. They have a license to rob you.

At the time we got our policy, we found one which had set premiums for life. It has a maximum payout and was designed to cover about 1.5 years of full nursing care for each of us. It is also indexed to inflation and payout likewise increased enough that well over a decade of premiums it still would...

Amen to that.

One correction - I assume you mean accept Medicaid, not Medicare. Medicare only covers rehab costs after hospitalization, not long term nursing care. But the point is well taken - Medicaid pays so little that most nursing homes which accept it can't afford to operate at a decent standard of care. A...

In addition, "protecting" your assets so you can go on the dole (which is what Medicaid is), is freeloading on the taxpayers. Medicaid is for those who are truly poor, not families trying to preserve inheritances. And if you raised your kids to be counting on inheriting money from you, you were a l...

Well done, D - to you and your brother. Your father rests easy.

This is the best advice apart from all other commentators

What a tremendous waste of money. Just put me in a cardboard box and let my kids have the money.

My m-i-l swore the same thing - never put me in a nursing home, just let me die. Trouble is, she became more and more fragile, then fell and broke a hip. She required more care than family could provide even with home health care assistance, and rehab didn't help enough to change that. When that ...

My dad was adamant that he didn't want to be in a nursing home. However things changed. He got dementia. For a while it was not too bad. But then he got worse, much worse. He needed 24/7 care. We tried to get home nursing help. But we were in covid and that was looking like a long wait - tim...

Easier said then done.

Hear hear !
The money you have saved should be for YOUR OWN care at end of life.
Only leave inheritances if there is anything left after you have died.
Use your money to buy your quality of remaining life.
Don't "protect" it for your heirs, who will possibly just spend it recklessly anyway.

I worked in a nursing home and it was considered a 5 star. It was horrible too. My aunt was in a Medicaid facility and she died because no one would clean her and she kept getting utis. Eventually, the infection broke into her system and killed her. She was only 58 but had a stroke 10 years earlier...

My mom is in a pretty good assisted living facility with memory care, only $3K/mo. She has LTC insurance so it worked out. Before she can apply for MEDICAID she has to stay there for 2 years, and then she has to have her savings and assets spent down. It's a nice place though. They go on trips, out...

You are a class act unfortunately not many like you. But you are right.

Exactly! You did the right thing!

We need a public list of these places! We go through so much to find that one. My dad had a wonderful place to care for him. It was a 6 bedroom huge house. 12 residents, 2 per room. The care, the food, the cleanliness was impeccable. Dining table to fit all residents at once. A nice lazy-boy...

Very well said D, I could have written that myself, same experience and opinion. In the long run you will find a deep sense of comfort when thinking about what you did if you have not felt it already, forgive me if I am wrong but it sounds like your Father has passed and if so I offer my condolenc...

Excellent! We did the same thing.


Its better to assume they all stink and just go with one that's closest to you.I assure you your loved ones won't know the difference no matter where you go

If the question is: "can I get Medicaid to pay for my nursing home and still leave an inheritance for the kids?" then the answer is No. You can't.
Use your IRA for your own needs. Don't worry about an inheritance.

On the flip side, hiring a live-in care giver is probably much better and less costly nowadays than a nursing home would be.

That is exactly what I was going to say. Don't expect me to pay for your nursing home while you leave assets to your kids! Pay for it yourself.

IRAs are not counted as available resources for Medicaid eligibility in some states.

States have widely varying rules regarding Medicaid for long term care. In California an IRA of a Medicaid beneficiary is considered unavailable, and, if that is the only nonexempt asset, does not disqualify the elder from Medicaid for LTC. The IRA principal is 100% exempt from recovery by the Stat...

Exactly, depending on the needs.

Typically patients go into a nursing home because of dementia. Remember this is ultimately fatal. More than half of the people who go into a nursing home die within 6 months. And they are the lucky ones. The unlucky ones spend years gradually losing their minds, losing awareness of who they are and ...

My plan is to ask my doctor for sleeping pills prior to losing my mind or my health, save them up, and take care of my passing prior to getting to the point where I can no longer take care of myself. I have already discussed this with my son and he understands. We will have one last fabulous din...

Very Nice Plan, lady!
Just hope it will go as planned.
An acquaintance of mine, did plan as you; a friend found him, called EMS to bring him to hospital, where they saved him, or partially, to be tube fed for the rest of his life.
Fate? Destiny?
Hasta la vista.

I will plan to not have any friends. :)

"This is easy to say but difficult to implement, but . . .. Use your assets to live comfortably. You do not need to take endless cruises at $1,000/day to be comfortable.
Your ability to enjoy life will wane along with your assets. The end of judiciously-managed money c...

Trusts and POD accounts avoid probate while still maintaining control of the assets

you have to qualify for hospice, you can't just choose between nursing home care and hospice.

Tell me about this "Take" that nursing homes are doing? After putting both my parents in a home and considering that their estate would not cover the cost up until their day of death, I was quite happy to have them "Take" everything and then have the government payments start. Never once did I grum...

Consider in-home care - it can be an affordable option if your loved one doesn't require 24/7 care. It's the route we chose for our father and so far it's working out well. A decent skilled nursing facility is $12K a month and the in-home nurses aide is $40 an hour.

$40 an hour x 24 hours x 30 days/month = $28,800

Most don't need 24/7 care, my father included so 6-7 hours a day of help is adequate. He skips the weekends and family helps him out, so he's paying about $1,200 a week for care. Also, overnight help is less than $40 per hour, so if you're considering in-home care call for the specifics.

Poddle, how do I go about doing research for these services and costs.
And how do you vett these people coming in to your house.

Exactly. My father demands I bring my mom home so he Mr self center will not be alone and he says it cost $40 an hour. Yes and that is almost $30k a month. Worse is one need three shifts. And what if he she does not show up? Then what? Who takes care off a vascular dementia patient? $12k a month...

So correct!! There is no way an at home caregiver can provide the proper care once dementia and alzheimers takes control of you. You can't even get out of bed to use the bathroom. You can no longer eat, you have no idea who you are anymore. It's disgusting!

Seems like it's always been pretty much this way though... If they want their savings to go to their children, they should be paying it out and should have started earlier, likely. Yes, it's frustrating, but it really isn't too fair to fall into the camp of "I want to keep my money but make you p...

The term "mediocre care" is quite a euphemism. Many, if not most, long term care facilities that accept patients on Medicaid are miserable places. We experienced it first hand with mother during the last 5 years of her life. These places are notoriously understaffed so the caregivers are overworked...

Your mother was lucky to have you to look out for her. For many with no family, the $30 per month they are allowed to keep for personal expenses do not make a medicaid home bearable. For those who do not know, that $30 needs to buy underwear/socks, depends, food items, shampoo, etc - maybe even get...

As part of a 1996 health care bill, Congress made it a crime to transfer assets for purposes of achieving Medicaid eligibility. Congress repealed the law in 1997, but replaced it with a statute that made it a crime to advise or counsel someone for a fee regarding transferring assets for purposes of...

There are legal and sensible ways to do it but I believe they must be done five years in advance.

If one need to consult with anyone it is an estate attorney. Forget financial advisors. Most advisors are in need of advise themselves. Ask the advisor what is your net worth Mr/Ms advisor?

In 1998, Attorney General Janet Reno determined that the law was unconstitutional because it violated the First Amendment protection of free speech, and she told Congress that the Justice Department would not enforce the law. Around the same time, a U.S. District Court judge in New York said ...

As someone that spent their life in the financial field, use your money! That’s what you saved it for! Not your kids. Let them earn their own money. Why should you “hide” it and expect the State to support you in your old age? The State funds are for low income people, not someone that has amassed ...

I am 59, my daughter is 34. I paid for a co-op apt. in NYC for her, that's her inheritance. If I spend the rest of my "estate" so be it. I would rather see her enjoy her inheritance during my lifetime, not going to see it after I die. My grandparents had the same philosophy and were exceedingly...

As an investment advisor, I told people just that. Give the kids money while you can see them enjoy it. A coop in NYC…wish I was your daughter!

nursing homes dont have to be dirty money leeching hell holes either. thats the problem. they should be clean and easy dormitories, with unlimited access to all the drugs and painkillers you want. we should be looking forward to going there, not deathly afraid.

With $865k in my IRA Account, still working at 64 in excellent health (knock on wood) no bills, own everything, I have no need to touch my IRA Account for the next 8 years until the RMD'S kick in. With that being said my son wants me to spend it all before I go, where as my daughter I think wonders...

Suggestion: as soon as you retire, perform Roth conversions. Do so as much as possible to keep your income below certain thresholds (lower tax bracket, IRMAA, etc.) Otherwise your RMDs will be very large.

FYI the newest tax changes (Secure 2.0) have the RMD's being required to start later, so for you (if born in 1959), your first RMD will not be until age 74 in 2033 or (if born in 1958) at age 73 in 2031.
Also, a first year RMD is less than 4% of the 12/31 prior year value (Under $32k on $865k if it ...

Once in a Roth IRA, there are no required distributions. And, if left to heirs (children/spouses/etc.) there are many more years to disburse than a regular IRA. ..

You can only open new Roth IRAs if you are employed.

Couple possibilities. If you’re old and married. Stay together but get divorced. That can protect assets if one of you needs expensive care. If you want to leave an inheritance, give it now, don’t wait until death or for a nursing home to take it.

Give it now... unless you may need nursing home care within 5 years. The lookback period is important.

The entire system for the elderly in this country is to take all of their assets if possible. Three squares a day and a clean bed shouldn't cost $ 10,000 a month.

My aunt ran out of money, but owned her home. So we put it in an IRREVOCABLE trust, which prevented the state from coming after it when she passed. It pays to consult several people. I went to an attorney, who was gonna charge me $7500, but wouldn't tell me what he was gonna do. I worked with a...

The problem is the trust is irrevocable. Most people do not want to make a decision like this, they cannot change.

We hired an elder attorney and put Mom's investment that yields about 25,000.00 per year into an irrevocable trust. Mom used all her assets down to 10,000.00 for assisted living and then qualified for Medicaid. In my state Medicaid will pay for assisted living but they will first take your social ...

Doesn't that need to be done five years ahead of time to protect it?

You don't want medicaid. Use your assets to hire help if you need it. Who cares if you spend it all -- you can't take it with you.

I was going to hang half in the attic and the other half in the basement. Whichever way I go, I can take half with me...

you can always take a pill and end it. the problem is if you get stuck in a hospital due to a surgery and can't get out to take care of it yourself, and they stick you in a home , they will take whatever you have.
If you can't do for yourself what is the point of living, to look out the window? forg...

Where does one acquire such a pill? Our medical system, and religious institutions demand that you live (and pay for) each agonizing breath before you go.

My father had the right idea. At age 80 and in poor health, he had been admitted to the hospital, once again, for an infection, this time an infected gall bladder. They wanted to remove it (routine surgery) and he said no, he wanted to check out. I asked him if he meant the final check out and h...

Check out the book “Final Exit.”

There is another elephant in the room called Medicaid Estate recovery. If anything is left in the estate after Medicaid recipients die, it is taken by estate recovery up to the amount spent on long term care. A house is an example. Having a house does not disqualify for Medicaid. But after a person...

The Estate Recovery laws apparently vary by state. In Wisconsin the state can take the proceeds of your life insurance policy no matter who is named as a beneficiary, if it was purchased after August 2014

Most of the $13-19k per month nursing homes do not accept any Medicaid patients. It truly is a two tier system.
Those that can afford the private pays homes will never see a Medicaid patient in the facility.

I have to disagree. My mom’s friends were paying out $13,000-$16,000 while some others at facility were on Medicaid. I’m sure there are high level ones that do not accept Medicaid, but there are plenty mid level that accept both with priority given to the cash payer.

Labor costs?? Are you kidding? Do you know how much healthcare providers earn?
 I'll give you a hint: not much more than McDonalds employees.
It's the fat cats at the top, who do nothing, who are raking in the billions. Just like most corporations in America.

You need to look at the profit goals of the company which runs the nursing home AND the company which rents the building/land to that company. In some cases the nursing home claims high costs due to the rent the pay ... and it turns out that the same people own both companies ('hiding' the profit...

The short answer is yes.
The Medicaid folks aren't dumb. They know that people hide money in trusts. If you have any assets, you must exhaust them first before you apply for charity to pay your bills.

assisted living facilities are still 5-8k a month minimum..need $1 mil to ride out 10 years.

I am on my 10th year in assisted living facilities. I keep a running total and have spent over $600,000. And I live high. Moderate expenses are around $4 to 4500 per month (in Texas). But, it goes up every year.

Need to move to a state where the cost is between 3-4k (generally the South). My mother moved to SC to an "independent living" condo (62k that I bought for her). For 1800/month, she gets one meal per day, housekeeping, a bus to shopping, and laundry. That includes utilities, cable, and Internet....

Every state differs. MO takes everything including insurance policies, bank accounts, assets, social security and gives, maybe $20 month to buy personal items. I had to quit working and had no medical insurance or help from brothers, but staying with mom and dad was the best choice for us.

I bought long term care insurance when I was 44 yrs old. I am 80 and have not used it. It was a few hundred dollars a year and I have increased it when the company offered. It is now 75 a month. I have it so "you" the tax payers do not have to pay for my care if I need it. I may never use it.....

Have people ever put any thought into mulitgenerational house holds? My family is doing that right now in los angeles.
Yes less privacy, noisy and sometimes their is fighting, But it gives next generation a chance to be put thru college, trade school or open a business so they can move out when the...

Having worked in and taught nursing in long-term care facilities, you really do not want to be in a medicaid nursing home. While occasionally you may find a private pay nursing home with a medicaid "wing" that is acceptable, generally the staffing is much worse at medicaid skilled nursing facilitie...

Some people decide not to deal with dementia, extended illness, etc. and decide to check out once their quality of life deteriorates. Doctor Assisted Suicide (DAS) is not for me or many people, but for some who choose it, they just travel to one of the states where it is legal to end it all with the help of a doctor. DAS ...

See a Certified Elder Law Attorney (CELA) right away, not just a Elder Law Attorney. They need this extra certification and in Michigan there are only 18 in the state. In Michigan, with these attorneys, they can protect a married couples assets 100%.

Medicaid isn’t for people with a 100k IRA stashed away. It’s for the very poor and they will check your assets going back five years. Once a recipient dies, the state will come calling for whatever assets the person had (ex: a house) to pay back the money.
As for nursing homes, they are bloodsucking...

Long term care insurance is one of the biggest and shameful rip offs ever contrived by the powers that be and foisted on working people. Contracts mean nothing and nine times out of ten you will have to enlist the aid of an attorney in order to make a claim on your benefits when the time comes to n...

Here in Texas my mom had to show past 5 years of her bank statements, etc before she could get Medicaid and placed in a nursing home. She didn't have much just her monthly social security that was under my dad (she never worked) and his retirement monthly fund which was also small (total $1,000) Th...

Go in a Medicaid nursing home and have your SS taken and be given a small allowance for toiletries. Get no care and have to have your family buy you any clothes. You will be living very poorly and neglected.

Hire a Medicaid Lawyer...not a Financial Advisor.

Most long term care facilities do not accept Medicaid, even if you enter a continuing care facility, the contact will usually specify that Medicaid is not accepted. Many years ago, these facilities permitted people to enter as full pay type residents and if their assets were exhausted, the residen...

I looked at LTC (Long-Term Care) insurance and decided to self-insure into a separate IRA (Individual Retirement Arrangement) Account. This way if I didn't need to be in the nursing home (hope to die in my sleep in old age) my kids will get the money in the account while LTC doesn't pay out anythin...

Another way to look at this is to match cashflow with care cost by considering moving to another country where care cost is much lower and probably have at least as good caregivers. Tie up the $100k in an annuity that will at least pay out over time what was put in and cannot be taken by a claw-bac...

Misinformation given in the article (and in some of the comments).
In several states, New York and Florida, among others, they cannot require you to use the principal of your IRA to pay for care before Medicaid starts paying. All they can do is take your RMD every year.
At least in NY ditto for 401k....


They can't take the spouses IRA because that is in that person'r's name but they can take the patient's. You have to be careful in transferring assets because they look back 5 years.

LOL ...... The 5year rule has been around for a very long time. I had a friend whose mother came down with Alzheimer. The family knew about the 5-year rule and transferred title to their home to my friend. When the time came for nursing home care, the father was able to stay in his home. The ...

Assisted living & nursing homes are blood suckers that'll get every dime a person has. My Mom made a mistake & gave power of attorney to my older sister. She put my Mom in assisted living. After the financials were known the price was around $3500 a month, within a few months it jacked up to over $...

Please don’t worry about inheritance. Spend it on you. The only problem is $100k does not even cover one year of half decent nursing home. My mother in law is in one and it cost $15k a month in California. She went to the nursing him at 97 and she is turning 107 in June and her mind is very sh...See more


Adult Family Care homes are the only way to go. One doesn't even have to be old to get in, just needing care. Can be as simple as a single adult with 2 broken legs from an accident who needs care until they are back on their feet. They are far better than any nursing home, cheaper in the long run a...

I'm kinda confused with the article. I thought Medicaid was for people under 65 and poor, and if your over 65 you fall under Medicare. This article said they were elderly and have IRA's so I assume they worked enough for Medicare.

What if I put my savings in an account under my son's name and sold my home to my son prior to 5 years of lookback? I'm sure they would still take my pension, but would everything else be protected? Also, it might appear that I am poor on paper so I would qualify for MLTC, correct?

yes i investigated medicaid for care of my elderly Mother and was faced with the five year look back, which rendered her ineligible due to her assets

I read where 80% of a person's lifetime healthcare spending happens in the last 2 years of their life. IDK what the solution is


The article states Medicaid. There is medicare and Medicaid, two different entities, but I get the 5 year look back rule.

It depends on the state, but your home will be take by the government after your death to make up for your Medicaid expenses. It will not be given to your heirs, even if that's in your will.


Having been through it, beware of LTC insurance companies. Once my mother reached about 88, they started sending her renewals that showed how much she could "save" if she reduced her coverage by a year. Over the span of a few years, she reduced it down to a year when she could have continued to p...




WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE much earlier in preparation for retirement: LEAVE THE COUNTRY and set up an International Trust/with a LLC to place your assets in. It's too late now. It's sad that the American masses have come to misplace trust in the American system to protect themselves and their asse...


once you get into a private nursing home by paying the first six months they can not kick u out.  Then medicaid kicks in New York. so just pay the the first six months...nursing home doesn't need to see all your assets


Change your trust to a different name, one that does not indicate you and have a new SS number assigned to it. Medicaid will only check your own SS number and no further.

What a lot of people from Asian countries where it is customary for the children to take care of their parents is to give all their money and property to their children and then move to California where they get the most in welfare and medicaid. Their children use the money they gave them to buy t...


Take the money from your ira , pay the taxes and give it to your children you can gift 15,000 to each tax free to them every year.
 

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